Ear Hustle is a podcast that is recorded in San Quentin State Prison by former prisoner Earlonne Woods and visual artist Nigel Poor. The pair record in the prison’s media lab and interview prisoners who are willing to share their stories. The podcast allows prisoners to give listeners a direct look at what prison life is like – sharing the true reality of prison that Hollywood often glosses over.
I have included a link to episode 2 of Ear Hustle, “Misguided Loyalty.” This episode follows the story of Tommy Shakur Ross, a former gang member who is serving time at San Quentin State Prison for the murder of a rival gang member. What I enjoy about this interview is how it has been edited to create what sounds to be a seamless narrative told by Mr. Ross. There are times when Earlonne and Nigel interrupt Mr. Ross’s narrative to insert their own commentary, this was done post-interview and stands in for the questions that should be in its place.
This choice, to remove the questions from the initial interview and insert commentary, creates this feeling that you are listening to a seamless story instead of separate answers to the host’s questions. Given, this interview was bound to have a story-like resemblance no matter what. The episode tells us the tale about how Mr. Ross ended up in prison and his journey away from his gang affiliation as “Joker.” Still, had the interview been left with the original prompts and questions in place, it might have come across more probing rather than giving Mr. Ross a platform to tell his story. Removing the interviewer gives the interviewee greater control over their story and is one of the things I think makes this episode so engaging.
Ear Hustle is interesting in this respect because this is how most of their episodes play out. An inmate, or two, tell their story and it is edited together almost seamlessly with Earlonne and Nigel sprinkling in their commentary post-edit. It is an uncommon way to present an interview but I find it refreshing. This format really gives the inmates of San Quentin an opportunity to tell their story as raw and unfiltered as possible. I don’t feel like the interviewers are trying to guide the stories in any one particular direction, they just want to let it play out. I think that in a prison system where so much is regulated and there is little control over personal choices, this kind of interview format is one small way to give control back to the inmates.
If you haven’t checked out Ear Hustle I encourage you to do so, link below.
Lilly,
This was a fabulous recommendation! I’ve not heard an interview on a podcast like this and it’s given me some new ideas about how to approach interviews and the editing process.
The best part about the presentation was how they opened with Joker’s experience. No explanation, just jump right in. Then the hosts go back and fill in with some personal explanation from Joker, along with brief asides from the hosts. These asides were especially helpful because they explain prison slang, something that helps broaden their audience. I can tell the goal with these interviews is to humanize the incarcerated, help them feel heard and help people on the outside to understand prisoners as actual people and not just numbers.
The hosts weave these explanations and asides in seamlessly, without taking away from Joker’s story. And it does feel like a story, not like an interview. There are questions from the host, yes, but she’s often laughing with the inmates and explains the prison in such a familiar way that she feels like she’s a part of a community. It’s a truly beautiful presentation of incarcerated life, but it by no means glamorizes it in the way Orange is the New Black does. It’s honest and the inmates even admit many prisoners aren’t able to reflect against their crimes and grow.
There are times that Joker’s monologues makes me forget that I am listening to an interview. The host doesn’t have to guide him too much because he genuinely wants to share his story. The questions I have as I listen he ends up answering on his own. For example, he described his first murder in such a nonchalant way and I wanted to hear how he felt about it after he took the time to think. When his mother and brother were murdered as retribution, I wanted to know how he was able to cope with this new vision of himself he had. He tells the story and then he reflects on it and the hosts don’t interrupt him.
This honesty and the presentation of the podcast as individualized story is so genuinely human in a time where media is often curated ideals of perfect. I valued this and I think what Ear Hustle is doing is quite revolutionary. I’m going to be coming back to this podcast both as an exemplar for production and as a listener.
~Rachel
Hi Lilly,
Honestly, I was little bit hesitant to listen to “Misguided Loyalty” (nonfiction crime pieces can sometimes get a little too graphic and disturbing for me), but I’m so glad that I did. After all, this type of podcast — one produced by inmates in order to interview other inmates — is pretty uncommon, but I think it’s so important for content like this to exist since it “humanizes” people who have definitely done terrible things but who still have stories to share.
First of all, I was really floored by how unfiltered and upfront Ross was throughout the entire interview. I kind of expected him to be a little reserved or guarded when talking about such heavy, far-reaching events from his pre-prison life, but he always seemed totally relaxed and open, even being a bit theatrical with his delivery at certain points. Particularly, there were two standout moments from Ross’s story that really got my attention: when he reflects on the meaninglessness of the murder he committed (“He died for no reason; he died basically over words”); and when he wonders what type of other hypothetical trouble he might’ve gotten into (“I’m glad that they arrested me when they did”).
As for the production elements, I agree with you that the unconventional interview style at work here was absolutely the best way to approach this type of sensitive subject material. After all, were the co-hosts to have sat down with Ross and just done a typical back-and-forth, question-and-answer segment over a topic so serious, it would’ve felt like they were being too prying and that they were intentionally trying to direct certain quotes out of him. Instead, it was much more effective to just let Ross talk freely by himself and then for the co-hosts to add in a sort of roundtable commentary just between the two of them about what Ross said and their responses to it. Aside from that, I also really appreciate how much detail was put into the sounds for this podcast — not only for the voices and the background music but also for the various sound effects that play as immersive overlays to what Ross is talking about: punches being thrown, paint being sprayed from a can, a phone ringing. Indeed, all that combined with Ross’s and the co-host’s two separate narrations makes the final product feel less like a podcast and more like a professional documentary or like one of those headset recordings for self-guided tours through museums.
Overall, I think this is a fantastic exemplar that really sets the standard for the impact podcasts can have when they’re carried out with this much effort and care, so thanks for the recommendation!
Thank you so much for making us aware of this podcast. I love that it is produced by an incarcerated American and tries to tell the stories of prisoners, and works to humanize them. I’m excited to listen to more episodes and hear different perspectives.
I agree that the technique (almost like confessionals on a reality TV show) of cutting out most of the interviewer’s questions and letting Tommy Shakur Ross tell his own story is effective here. Tommy’s story is so dramatic, and his is the voice that listeners want to hear. The hosts also do a good job of inserting just enough background information (e.g., history of the gangs in LA in the ’80s) so that the listener knows what is going on, but isn’t taken out of Tommy’s story.
One other thing I’d like to note is the use of music and background noise in this episode. It’s not something I normally pay attention to, but I thought the sound editor took an interesting tack of inserting not only music to go along with Tommy’s story but also noises of cars or people fighting to bring the story to life. These were effective devices to immerse the listener in the story.